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#: 17661 S13/The GEOS Connection
08-Jan-89 03:30:20
Sb: #Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Skip Kazmarek 71066,1547
To: Sysop (X)
I've developed a problem with geos. The system will only work if I have two
drives plugged in (which was the configuration I previously used). When I
remove the second drive, geos locks up, trashes disks, reads nonexistent disk
errors, etc. Plug the second drive back in, everything works fine. Configure
is set up properly. I've tried all the usual serial buss stuff (unplugging the
printer, modem, etc.), nothing seems to work. Anyone have any suggestions? My
second problem is, how does someone get any support out of BSW. Their phone
line has gone bye-bye, they will not answer email (at least on Q-link), the
Q-link "forum" is an impossibly inefficient medium, and the chit-chat I've
gotten on the Q-link message board is unhelpful to say the least. This is the
worst customer support I've ever seen, but right now I've got to get geos
working. HELP! :(
#: 17662 S13/The GEOS Connection
08-Jan-89 04:35:54
Sb: #17661-#Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032
To: Skip Kazmarek 71066,1547 (X)
Skip,
Hmmm. What kind of drive is it? If it's not a 1541, you'll need to be sure
you have a copy of Configure on any disk you put in it. As for getting support
from BSW, they'd said they were shutting off the phones to allow them to
concentrate all their efforts on Qlink. If you're not getting the support you
need there, I don't know what to suggest. I think they're supposed to still be
answering US Mail, though that's hardly a way to get timely support.
If anyone else here can think of anything helpful for your disk problem, I
hope they'll chime in here.
#: 17675 S13/The GEOS Connection
08-Jan-89 20:26:27
Sb: #17662-#Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Steve Hinds 74335,143
To: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032 (X)
Ed,ask me if the problem Skip has had surprises me!<GRIN>
#: 17676 S13/The GEOS Connection
08-Jan-89 20:34:45
Sb: #17675-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032
To: Steve Hinds 74335,143
Steve,
I know. There's not much point in me criticizing Qlink, though. People who
use that system can form their own opinions based on experience.
#: 17673 S13/The GEOS Connection
08-Jan-89 20:16:08
Sb: #17661-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Steve Hinds 74335,143
To: Skip Kazmarek 71066,1547 (X)
I had a problem with having two drives plugged in when I had the configuration
set up for one drive.When I configured the program for two drives everthing
worked fine,whether I used one or both drives.You should be able to use one
drive or two if you are configured for two drives,unless you have switched
drive types.I would go through the configuration process again,if you plan to
only use one drive you might try reconfiguring for one drive.If you have ever
forgot to properly close a disk I would try validating the disk(REMEMBER THOUGH
THIS MUST BE THE GEOS VALIDATE COMMAND).This will often repair minor damage.
#: 17674 S13/The GEOS Connection
08-Jan-89 20:22:58
Sb: #17661-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Steve Hinds 74335,143
To: Skip Kazmarek 71066,1547 (X)
I have an additional comment for you.It does not surprise me one bit you can
get no real help on Q-Link.That network is cheaper and it does have a lot of
software but otherwise it is one big JOKE. The big problem I found is the the
maturity level of some of people who frequent that network.
#: 17679 S13/The GEOS Connection
09-Jan-89 07:55:47
Sb: Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Skip Kazmarek 71066,1547
To: [F] Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032
Here is the basic problem.
The following setup works just fine (pardon the crude graphics) with Configure
set for one drive (1571) and the 1541 left off. (If for some reason I had to
use two drives, I would reconfigure at start up for two drives.)
Setup #1:
|--------| |-------------|---1351 MOUSE
| 1571 |----------------| C= 128 |
| |----- |-------------|---RS 232/Modem
|--------| |
|
|--------| |
| 1541 |----- |-------------|
| |----------------| PRINTER |
|--------| |-------------|
If I take the 1541 out of the loop, as shown below, with configure still set
for one drive, the system does not work at all!
Setup #2:
|--------| |-------------|---1351 MOUSE
| 1571 |----------------| C= 128 |
| |----- |-------------|---RS 232/Modem
|--------| |
|
| |-------------|
------------| PRINTER |
|-------------|
I will try setting Configure for two drives for setup #2 (per Steve Hinds
suggestion) and see what happens. I'll let you know. If you get any other
thoughts in the interim, I'd appreciate it.
#: 17682 S13/The GEOS Connection
09-Jan-89 18:34:25
Sb: #17679-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032
To: Skip Kazmarek 71066,1547 (X)
Skip,
OK, in the next few days, I'll see if I can come up with anything. I don't
have a 1571, but do have a 1581, and will see I can get anything to break.
#: 17746 S13/The GEOS Connection
13-Jan-89 18:48:05
Sb: #17676-#Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Steve Hinds 74335,143
To: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032 (X)
I agree with your position on Q-Link.
I recently receieved a reply to my letter to BSW.Dennis Rowland,president of
BSW replied that they felt the phone service was not cost effective,and also
that it was not really working,all that well.He also indicated that the
correspondence support also has been eliminated.He did indicate they are
researching cost effective ways of re-instating the servi further indicated
that a charge for the service may also be involved.He then went on to directly
state some type of plan would be developed. Ed please feel free to edit this
and repost it in a way all interested parties may view this info.Since it is
apparent that somebody did read the letter,and had enough respect to respond,I
now feel it is even more important for Geos users to express their opinion.A
key point in the reply I received was that no time frame was given for
re-instatement of customer service for all.I will not state a opinion on the
possibility of a charge,but I do feel it should be addressed, whether pro or
con in any letter to them.
#: 17747 S13/The GEOS Connection
13-Jan-89 19:24:07
Sb: #17746-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032
To: Steve Hinds 74335,143
Steve,
The message looks fine, and I've left it completely alone, and visible to
all interested.
#: 17749 S13/The GEOS Connection
13-Jan-89 19:55:55
Sb: #17746-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Marte Brengle 76703,4242
To: Steve Hinds 74335,143
Brian Dougherty gave me a reply to one of the messages I left on QLink, in
which I quoted directly from an interview with him in the Gazette and pointed
out that he promised us a lot of stuff that wasn't delivered. He didn't really
say a whole lot, but he did explain why some decisions were made.
I left a following message pointing out that BSW's customer service people are
probably tied up all day fixing disks that people have mis-keyed, wiped out in
the installation process, bombed during an upgrade or had trashed by the Trojan
Horse. If the copy protection were eliminated, I said, and if BSW would upload
its own Trojan Horse Removal program to QLink, the company could save massive
amounts of time. The copy protection has ONLY harmed LEGITIMATE users of the
program and has not deterred the pirates for more than a few moments, not to
mention creating a thriving industry for "GEOS Buster" type programs. I asked
him to speak to that issue and perhaps reconsider the corporate policy on the
matter.
Haven't heard back from him yet. But the fact that he did answer my original
message shows that there may yet be hope.
--M--
#: 17756 S13/The GEOS Connection
14-Jan-89 14:27:33
Sb: #17747-#Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Tweeze 72401,1677
To: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032 (X)
Perhaps a letter writting campaign could be instituded here. Someone could
draft a form letter and upload it into the library. Anyone wishing to make
Berkeley aware of thier feelings could download the letter and sign thier name.
Using a form letter would demonstrate universal concern to BSW.
#: 17757 S13/The GEOS Connection
14-Jan-89 15:00:37
Sb: #17756-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032
To: Tweeze 72401,1677
I think it makes more sense for people to write their own letters. Form letters
are usually not given nearly as much attention as calm, well-reasoned,
personally written letters. I hope people *will* write BSW and let them know
what they think, good and bad.
#: 17760 S13/The GEOS Connection
14-Jan-89 23:00:30
Sb: #17756-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Marte Brengle 76703,4242
To: Tweeze 72401,1677
The most successful letter-writing campaigns of the recent past (like the ones
concerning "Star Trek") have always stressed that each person MUST write an
individual letter. There may be certain suggestions as to content, style, or
what should be mentioned, but form letters are really out of the question if
you want to be taken seriously. It's far too easy for the person who handles
the mail to recognize a form letter and give it a quick heave-ho.
--M--
#: 17788 S13/The GEOS Connection
17-Jan-89 17:54:58
Sb: #17760-#Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Steven D. Twiss 73227,326
To: Marte Brengle 76703,4242 (X)
forgive me for breaking in here, but time is short...if a letter writing
campaign to BSW were to begin, perhaps folks might ask for GEOS to be available
on a cartridge. I can't say I'm terribly knowledgeable about such things, but
considering what everyone has told me about REU's, why couldn't GEOS simply be
avaiable just by turning on the puter? And include a battery for a clock one
wouldn't always have to reset? And a terminal program? And a calendar? Or is
this just a wild eyed dream (sigh)?
#: 17791 S13/The GEOS Connection
18-Jan-89 02:33:15
Sb: #17788-#Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032
To: Steven D. Twiss 73227,326
Steven,
The suggestion for a GEOS ROM has been around for some time now. I think it
does have some merit, but also has the disadvantage that it would become much
more expensive not only to upgrade to a new release, but even to apply a small
bug fix. I don't know whether BSW has ever seriously considered it, or if
they've just dismissed the idea out of hand, tho.
#: 17836 S13/The GEOS Connection
21-Jan-89 15:44:03
Sb: #17791-#Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Bill Roberson 73320,1550
To: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032 (X)
Ed,
I just read an interview with Brian D. He said a ROM was not even considered
while GEOS was in its early stages, but now that v2.0 is out it might be
possible. So, BSW is in fact considering ROM. Probably not very likely, but
we can always hope.
If GEOS were in ROM, would everyone have to buy cartridge port expanders for
their 17xx REUs?
8) Bill 8)
#: 17841 S13/The GEOS Connection
21-Jan-89 17:04:32
Sb: #17836-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032
To: Bill Roberson 73320,1550
Bill,
The alternative, I guess, would be to build a REU into the same casing as
the GEOS ROM, and charge big bucks for the whole mess <grin>
#: 17848 S13/The GEOS Connection
22-Jan-89 14:19:06
Sb: #17749-#Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Steve Hinds 74335,143
To: Marte Brengle 76703,4242 (X)
Marte,
I agree with you,and hope B comes to realize the error of its ways.I was
not aware of the trojan horse,as a part of the protection scheme.I am aware
that applying a parameter to a backup appears to make it more important to
close the disk properly.I am also aware that there "appears to be no real
need"to apply parameters to backup such as Geowrite,as one can simply transfer
the files to a work disk,after installation.I do not consider trojan horse
protection very ethical,but I also Know that once its presence is known,its
removal seems to be no problem for the various "experts" in the so called art
of "protection breaking"
I personally feel that lowering prices,and removing the protection would solve
the problem.Protection schemes add to the cost,and any that can be created can
be broken or removed.The record industry ha thrived,despite the fact anybody
can cheaply,and with ease copy any record or tape produced.Yes a black market
does exist,but because of the relative low cost of records and tapes,it is not
near as attractive as it could be,even though it is a million dollar
business-it could be a billion dollar business just as easy.The real point is
protection is a joke and adds to the expense of software,from the point of
paying a programmer to come up with it,and from the need for copy programs to
protect your legal right to backup for personal use.The best way to fight
pirating is to make it less profitable,this is a simple fact of
business,apparently many in the software field are having a hard time
understanding this.
#: 17853 S13/The GEOS Connection
22-Jan-89 22:29:53
Sb: #17848-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Marte Brengle 76703,4242
To: Steve Hinds 74335,143
By the way, the official reason that BSW didn't copy protect the Apple GEOS is
as follows: Apple software isn't usually copy protected, and Commodore
software is. That's why we did it that way.
--M--
#: 17903 S13/The GEOS Connection
25-Jan-89 21:44:58
Sb: #17841-#Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Transactor HQ 76703,4243
To: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032 (X)
Hi Ed:
Another alternative would be to put the RAM inside the computer! See "The C256"
in Transactor (Vol. 9, Iss. 2) for details.
Malcolm
#: 17944 S13/The GEOS Connection
29-Jan-89 12:34:23
Sb: #17903-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Bill Roberson 73320,1550
To: Transactor HQ 76703,4243
Malcolm,
I just got my Transactor (Vol. 9, Iss. 2). Now if only I hadn't misplaced the
label I could give you the corrections (mis-spelled name).
The article on the C-256 was real nice. I am currently dreaming about a 128
stuffed into a laptop case (complete with LCD screen) and a built-in 1750 REU.
Maybe a built-in 1200 baud modem also. Any chance someone will do an article
on a C=128(640).
8) Bill 8)
* RR 17903
#: 17946 S13/The GEOS Connection
29-Jan-89 12:34:37
Sb: #17848-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Bill Roberson 73320,1550
To: Steve Hinds 74335,143
Steve,
I agree with you. I have run the parameters on my boot copies, but since the
other protected programs will work on any copy of MY boot disk, I don't need
the parameters for them.
BUT, If someone were to purchase a used GEOS program, or if someone installed
their upgrade incorrectly, the a parameter for geoWrite would be needed.
8) Bill 8)
#: 17973 S13/The GEOS Connection
31-Jan-89 09:57:34
Sb: #17944-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Transactor HQ 76703,4243
To: Bill Roberson 73320,1550 (X)
Hi Bill:
Glad you got your T. That wrong spelling is why I couldn't find you I guess.
Glad you liked the C256. There's been a lot of very good response on that -
enough for more follow-up articles probably. One of the things we've received
makes specific reference to the C128.
Keep reading. We're going to have lots of neat stuff. I should be able to
"announce" something soon that will warm the hearts of many readers.
BTW, I'm also dreaming of a laptop 128 w/colour LCD, 1581, built-in extra RAM.
A few other goodies. The dream gets more interesting with time. Hhmmm... I
wonder if dreams can come true.
Malcolm
#: 17997 S13/The GEOS Connection
03-Feb-89 08:17:42
Sb: #17903-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: Lee Graham 73457,1401
To: Transactor HQ 76703,4243
Another alternative would be to take the rom and mount it in your REU. I
believe that there's an empty socket in the REU that could be used for that
#: 18008 S13/The GEOS Connection
04-Feb-89 11:32:35
Sb: #17946-Problems with geos/BSW
Fm: John D 73455,43
To: Bill Roberson 73320,1550 (X)
There is a program called something like GEOS STANDARDIZER Puts the same serial
number (124+124*256) on everything! Belive it's from the Kracker Jax folks John